Put it on bike, timed, no spark. If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Repeat with clean pieces of petrol-moistened rag, until the rag comes out clean. These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. IMPORTANT. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might With the Lucas KN1, it is under the identification tag. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. Powered by Invision Community. Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. Post in the forum instead. 0000001320 00000 n heavier the better. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. 0000006861 00000 n Do similar tests with the HT lead(s) and the plug-cap(s). The turns ratio between the primary and secondary coil is selected so that the voltage across the secondary reaches a very high value, enough to arc across the gap of the spark plug. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. Pick-up brushes of the highest Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. Twirl the armature. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. To help magneto owners look after their magnetos Sign up for a new account in our community. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. 82 0 obj<> endobj You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. capacitance to satisfactory ignition system Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes. or Thanks. use in our workshop for magneto servicing Excellent "how-to". The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. Check the state of the points surfaces. Translate service. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. troubleshooting your magneto. information as we can about the electrical equipment When inserting the brushes; you may have to do. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. relating to our products, others more general Nous %%EOF If everything were perfect and clean, the resistance should be infinite (OL). replace it with an EasyCap. Magneto advice - lucas rf4 in vedette engine | YBW Forum Carefully check for any cracks or pin-holes in the pick-up. The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. All If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open. I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. Put a smear of grease on the lobe(s) of the cam. I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. Dansk classic owners. Thanks. is it rebuilt? The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. However, provided the reading is more than about 500 ohms, it is probably OK. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. patterns for shims, gaskets and bearing They were used in the village forge in Cullworth (northaptonshire). Therefore, taking the sparking plug(s) out of the engine, laying them on the cylinder head and checking whether the magneto will produce a spark at kickstart speeds is not a sufficient test. If you do, then replace the pick-up. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. However, dont make them lop-sided. The points surfaces should be very slightly convex, so dont worry about getting them perfectly flat. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. What else could possibly be grounding this? commonly found on classic motorcycles. A lot of carbon dust on the inside of the pick-up indicates that the brush is too soft, in which case it should be replaced with a brush of the correct grade. This will not stop the coil from working. If it is several thousand ohms, it indicates that the HT lead is resistive and/or the plug cap is fitted with a suppressor resistor. It's easy! 0000005952 00000 n Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. 0000013093 00000 n If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. Don't flame, hate, spam. quality are also available, of the correct The air gap between the rotor and the cap actually increases spark output as long as it's not excessive. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. Now line up your degree wheel with the pointer at 38*. If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. Lucas magneto problems? NEW CHEAP solution to bad condensor Magneto: No Spark - Antique Automobile Club of America Because it requires no battery or other source of electrical energy, the magneto is a compact and reliable self-contained ignition system, which is why it remains in use in many general aviation applications. V-TWINS Magnetos are always a compromise, usually producing a strong spark to one cylinder and a weaker one to the other. A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . 0000001184 00000 n Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag Translations provided by the Google Translate service. Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. startxref Thorspark magneto ignition repair FAQ - Sussex motorcycles A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. I got it back, spun it, sparked. You must log in or register to reply here. The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. themselves. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. I forgot about this. 0000003086 00000 n Dual plugs provide both redundancy should a magneto fail, and better engine performance (through enhanced combustion). If nobody is available, then you can make a test plug by removing the earth electrode from an old, but functional, sparking plug. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. If not free to move, ease it. I have seen that a lot on FM mags. It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. Stored in the dry. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". %PDF-1.5 % When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. Italiana The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. [5], The first person to develop the idea of a high-tension magneto was Andr Boudeville,[citation needed] but his design omitted a condenser (capacitor). i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. tour of some of our specialised workshop I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. Feel free to buy the forum staff a coffee or pint or just make a contribution of your choice. You are using an out of date browser. with a fixed register in the cam housing and with the advance/retard actuator). It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. Reassemble and check operation. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. Magneto Parts Archives - Rex's Speed Shop NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. rectifiers (and wiring diagrams) of use to all books, learndpapers and patents on replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in Electrics & Ignition | SRM Classic Bikes Pick-up brushes of the highest quality are also available, of the correct grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip ring. We also sell our Brightspark range of insulators; and timing discs. downloadable drawings for those of you who Or what else could be causing this? a separate spring-loaded holder (Lucas) or hidden at the back of the contact breaker plate (BT-H). These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. trailer Espaol Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. MAGNETO MAGIC - PressReader If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. Replace if necessary. Lucas (and most other) capacitors made in the 50's & 60's used a paper dielectric. 0000000783 00000 n Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! Our Our patented EasyCap is a simple 0000002847 00000 n On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently Nederlandse One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. MochetVelo Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. I worked on farm equipment for my last real service job from 2013 thru 2016. (Japanese) After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. and overhauls. It may not display this or other websites correctly. BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. He got it and thought the ring the points rides in came out and just needed pushed in. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. (Japanese) magnetos. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Common Faults on Magnetos Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. B Magneto Help - No Spark - Britbike forum Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. Then measure the resistance between the two points of the contact-breaker. Remagnetisation - Brightspark Magnetos I can guarantee every British motorcycle powered by a magneto i either not delivering maximum spark and/or is on the verge of failing if the original Lucas capacitor has not been replaced. Free access to service and repair In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. degrade with age. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. asked questions, some of which isn't to be She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. The magneto is rebuilt by a reputable US shop. read more deeply). JavaScript is disabled. The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. Others have an earth brush between the main body of the magneto and an earth track of the armature. Will It Spark? Checked it over and found no spark. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. The place to buy our EasyCap condensers Timing Lucas K2F and K2FC Magneto | Jockey Journal Forum We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. PA. Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. We Check the cam surface. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. 0000005012 00000 n At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. Trademark Office. but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. JVC 4VR-5436X 4 Channel Stereo Receiver Service Manual Original. Great post! Take a look at some of the equipment we that more owners can not only maintain their magnetos, A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. This was examined earlier. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. -- Tickover, pulling away, and low-speed running erratic. A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. Are suppressors and resistor sparking plugs OK to use with magnetos? Magneto services Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. We can adapt for most applications. Check the state of the contact return spring and replace if broken. However, for magnetos without a safety gap, if the armature is spun with nothing, or with a large gap, connected to the pick-up, it may cause a breakdown of the insulation around the HT winding or of the slip ring. 0000002567 00000 n This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. If higher than that, investigate. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. By The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. long practical experience of working on magnetos and With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. 0000007301 00000 n Really need a coil tester. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. I'm thinking the magneto is weak even though it was rebuilt with new condenser.. Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Having set the timing with the points opening on one cam lobe, you should check that it is also correct with the points opening on the other cam lobe. U.S. agrees to $5 million settlement over police killing of Bijan This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. If sloppy, consider fitting a new moving point (Lucas), bush (BTH), or pivot post. I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark Coil Fail. 0000004414 00000 n Check for wear and replace any worn parts. fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. From time to time we have complete 0000001569 00000 n At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. how they work; and to collate as much other With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. or If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) Check that the felt pad in the end of the screw holding together the two blocks of the points assembly is present and good, and soak it in oil. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." Your mag likely has a bad condensor. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No.
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